Matthew Williams, Joa Baldinger, and Heiner Friedrich Unpack John Chamberlain’s Influence

Heiner Friedrich opened Friedrich & Dahlem gallery in Munich in 1963, pioneering exhibitions of German artists like Georg Baselitz, Joseph Beuys, Sigmar Polke and Gerhard Richter, and introducing American artists such as John Chamberlain, Donald Judd, Cy Twombly and Andy Warhol to European audiences. In 1974, he co-founded the Dia Art Foundation and later established DASMAXIMUM in Traunreut, Germany, in 2010. Heiner and his wife, artist Joa Baldinger, shared a close friendship and collaborative bond with Chamberlain. Today they live in Sagaponack, surrounded by art and continuing to honor the legacy of their friend and collaborator. Fashion designer Matthew Williams, founder and creator of the brand Alyx, has collaborated with renowned fashion brands and designed stagewear for artists including Kanye West and Lady Gaga. Williams draws deep inspiration from Chamberlain’s work and Friedrich’s curatorial approach, weaving these influences into his own creative process.

Matthew Williams: Do you remember your first encounter with Chamberlain? What were your initial thoughts about him as both an artist and a person?

Joa Baldinger: He’s like his work: When you first encounter it, his work is so monumental, powerful, so much presence—some would say “macho”—but then when you’re around it, you see how soft and how beautiful and all these other qualities start coming out. That’s how he was as a person. He could be very intimidating, but once he got relaxed around you he was lovely.

MW: I remember seeing Chamberlain’s work at museums in America as a youth. I was drawn to the scale of his work, the unique forms and the ways in which color exists in his work. As a teenager I was fascinated by the fact that Chamberlain used car parts for his sculptures. I was familiar with automobile parts, as my dad used to rebuild cars and we’d travel to car shows across California together. Seeing art that was made from industrial and widespread objects such as car hoods was an eye-opening experience.

MW: What’s something about Chamberlain that might surprise people?

JB: I was surprised to know that he served in the U.S. Navy and also that he was a hairstylist and makeup artist. That history is like this quality I’m amazed about in his sculptures: There is such a brave, strong sensitivity in his work. His work is so full of dualities—masculine and feminine, Apollonian and Dionysian, ancient and modern—all happening at once.

MW: Your personal collection features several Chamberlain works. Chamberlain’s sculptures are spread throughout your home: In the entryway, living room, a special installation room and even your chanting room. How do these pieces fit into your daily life?

JB: I look at them about a hundred times a day and I continually see something I didn’t appreciate before. His works never stop changing and morphing to meet the moment, because it’s beautiful and alive and it reveals itself so secretly, which is the magic. I know it has historical importance but it goes far beyond that. It enhances my life to experience these moments that the sculptures inspire. Today, for instance, I’m looking at the two sculptures in our entryway, both titled Socket, made in ’74 and ’75. They’re very much of ’74 and very much of today and at the same time they remind me of a fourth-century Chinese ceramic artifact. And the works in the exhibition space that was once a garage—Half Cockney, COMANCHEDREAM and Rhyme of Passion—these recall the presence of a Bernini made in 1622. The Chamberlain, like the Bernini, can reach up to the heavens and defy all the weight of the earth, with all the awareness of the earthly pleasures. It has that majestic presence, and in that moment the sculptures are cutting through time and place—ancient, modern, European, Asian, American and on and on. And we are along for the ride.

MW: About the Plexiglas work in your chanting room: What made you decide to place that sculpture in such a spiritually significant spot?

JB: Heiner set all the works in the house. This is one of his geniuses. He has such an elevated sense of presence and space and he knew exactly where it should go. What piece and exactly where to place it. When that work arrived he placed it in its location without hesitation, as if there was a marker set on the floor determining its position. And we have never moved it. That polymer resin piece does work so eloquently and profoundly in that room. It always reveals something surprisingly delightful, profound and beautiful and so it deepens the awareness and gratitude and sense of happiness. But really, the other rooms with the Chamberlains are also spiritual. A Chamberlain sculpture or any great work is an oracle. They are oracles.

JB: In what ways do you see Chamberlain’s influence reflected in your own creative practice?

MW: I am inspired by Chamberlain’s use of color and forms. To Chamberlain, the definition of sculpture is attitude. He said: “All sculpture takes a stance.” This notion of thinking about shapes, materials and colors as attitude is very much part of my practice. Seeing Chamberlain’s building in Marfa at the Chinati Foundation was especially stimulating. I loved reading this quote of his about laziness, near the gigantic couch he created using foam: “In what I do, constant hard work is not necessary; my drive is based on laziness. I don’t mind admitting that I’m lazy because laziness is, for me, an attribute.” I believe what Chamberlain is telling us here is that the moments living life in between making the work are just as important as making the work itself. And I very much relate to that.

Heiner Friedrich: It is the works of art that speak and manifest our inspiration.

A version of this article first appeared in print in our 2025 Spring Issue in the “Artful Life” section. Subscribe to the magazine.